What if the rules of the art world were just suggestions you could ignore?
In this episode of Art Crush, artists Fi Marks and Paula Telizyn have one of their most defiant artistic conversations yet. If you’ve ever felt like you didn’t fit into the traditional gallery box, this episode is your invitation to stop waiting for permission and start choosing yourself.
Fi and Paula share how they are forging a unique path to shows by embracing a radical truth: if everything in the art world is made up, then we have the power to change the rules. This isn’t just another podcast about art; it’s a manifesto for creators who want to build their own stage.
In this episode, we explore:
- Forging a Unique Path: How to coordinate your own shows and skip the gallery hustle.
- The Made Up World: Using a shift in perspective to dismantle creative fear.
- Real Artist Conversations: The highs, lows, and logistics of taking the DIY route.
Whether you’re looking for deep art conversations or practical advice on navigating art and entertainment conversations in a digital age, Fi and Paula offer a refreshing, unfiltered look at what it means to be a modern creator.
00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to Art Crush with artist Fi Marks and artist Paul Telizyn, where we talk about the art world, running an art business, making difficult decisions in twenty twenty six. Life and everything.
00:00:26 Speaker 1: Hello, fee.
00:00:28 Speaker 2: Hello, Paula. Lovely to see you again.
00:00:31 Speaker 1: so today we want to talk about, breaking barriers in the art world by choosing ourselves first. And this is a big one. it’s relevant for us because we are about to have a show this year, in May of twenty twenty six, in Derby in, England. Northern. Is it northern England? Are we or Midlands?
00:00:52 Speaker 2: No, it’s the Midlands.
00:00:53 Speaker 1: Pardon. Pardon my geography.
00:00:55 Speaker 2: Midlands.
00:00:56 Speaker 1: The East Midlands in England. I should know this. I’ve been there, but let’s just exactly. Let’s just leave that. but I want to talk about how, we came about this show, why we’re doing it this way versus going to a juried gallery, submitting work or going to a juried show or whatever. and how other artists can take this information and run with it, because I think I didn’t realize that we are breaking barriers. But the more artists I speak to in my networking, and in my day to day job and everything else, I’m discovering that most people don’t think about this so.
00:01:35 Speaker 2: And one hundred percent, because even though a few years back you talked about, pop up shows, and I didn’t really get it at that point. I was like, I don’t want to just take over a shop. And the idea of doing it by yourself, you know it where nobody else has done it. It’s pretty daunting. And, um, now I think we’ve cracked the code as such. We are evolving. I mean, this is the first show that we are doing in this very different way, and hopefully we will influence everybody who comes, not only who will want to buy the art, but will also embrace this new idea of what a show and in a gallery should look like. But we are definitely evolving. And I’d just like to say to everybody who’s joining us on this journey, we know that we will make mistakes, but we’re embracing it. We we were talking just before we came on about how both of us are very open to keep learning. We thrive on it. And if you do that, then you are prepared to take risks and try new stuff. And that’s what we’re doing, Correct us if we’re wrong, if you know some other artists who are doing this. I hope there are I hope you do know, but we’re taking you on our journey and, uh, enjoy the ride and be inspired.
00:03:06 Speaker 1: Exactly. So one of the things that I’ve come to realize as the world sort of gets more challenging to live in, is that the rules of society that we live in are an agreement that we all agree on. So if somebody doesn’t agree on them, then everything goes sideways. But everything is made up. Everything we know or assume is made up. So if the proper path for a visual artist in twenty twenty six is to make a body of work, submit it to a bunch of galleries, face a ton of rejection, finally, get into some shitty gallery that takes a fifty percent commission and charges you for wall space at the same time, and then maybe sells one or two pieces so you barely make your costs back if you’re lucky.
00:03:51 Speaker 2: Or doesn’t sell anything.
00:03:53 Speaker 1: Right, exactly.
00:03:54 Speaker 2: So you have no recall? Yeah. You have no recall. You’re like, oh, yes. Just thank you, thank you, thank you for letting me hang my work. It’s almost like the artist feels like it’s their fault if they haven’t sold, even though they haven’t been doing the marketing and the selling. Yeah, it’s like, hang on, it’s like I’ve been in that situation, and you. I felt so embarrassed that my art hadn’t sold in a gallery show. And then the doubts come. I’m obviously not good enough. I’m not what their clients want. Da di da di da. But yeah, one hundred percent.
00:04:29 Speaker 1: Exactly. All of that expectation that you will if you get into one show. And we’ve talked about this in the previous episodes, where I’ve had artists reach out to me and be like, if I have one show, I’ll have it made. No, you fucking won’t. Pardon my French, you just won’t.
00:04:41 Speaker 2: We wish it was that easy.
00:04:44 Speaker 1: Exactly. So. So in twenty twenty six, if we assume that everything is made up and the stuff that we are told that we have to do in order to be legitimate is also made up, we can do whatever the hell we want. Now, I’m not suggesting everybody go out and be ax murderers, because that’s not, the thing, but I am.
00:05:00 Speaker 2: You still won’t sell you what you’re art.
00:05:02 Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly. But I am saying we can take what we assume to be the only way to do things and go, well, that’s kind of crap. That’s bullshit. Why am I taking all the financial risk on, like, I had a gallery represent me years ago, and I showed with them a lot, and they had opening events and they had the press and everything else, but I was taking on the financial risk as much as the gallery was, because I had to pay for all the frames, like one of my shows cost me almost a thousand dollars in frames, and I paint to standard sizes so I don’t have to get custom made frames. And it still costs me a buttload of money. And I never sold through that gallery. I worked with them for probably about a year, and I just could not get the sales through them. They weren’t selling my work appropriately. It wasn’t the right audience. Whatever. They weren’t the only gallery I worked with. Um, and so it sort of put me off with the gallery space is like, having a space is great, but you don’t know who’s coming in. You don’t know how well they’re marketing, you don’t know what the experience is. You don’t know what the galleries the curator is saying about your work. And if somebody does buy it, you don’t know who bought it.
00:06:05 Speaker 2: But also think think about, if we’re just watching a movie or we’re watching the television and they show an art gallery, it’s empty with nobody in it, or it is the opening, the preview night. And, uh, there’s all these people drinking wine and champagne. and they’re having a conversation. Not necessarily about the art. So, it’s like the image that is fed to us and to everybody is that galleries don’t actually have to do any work to promote their work. The artists, and they don’t necessarily have to be passionate about their work. That has always been my yardstick is like, well, I haven’t sold because they’re not passionate about my art. They don’t get it.
00:06:56 Speaker 1: Yeah. And they can’t talk about especially your art has such in-depth stories. They can’t talk about it in the same way with the same knowledge. Even if you gave them a sheet and somebody asks a question, they look at the sheet and they go, well, that question is not answered here, I guess. Oh, well, you know, that kind of thing. So so our show coming up, in Derby, which I can finally pronounce properly because I have a history of being terrible.
00:07:19 Speaker 2: Six years.
00:07:21 Speaker 1: Well, it’s spelt to, to my Canadian and North American, followers here it’s spelt Derby. So. So, Derby. Um. We found a space that looks amazing. We’ve booked the space in. We’re paying for the space, and and we’re being hosted by the space. And we chose to be in it, right? We chose our venue. We are choosing, uh, curating our own work. We’re responsible for advertising, for getting people in. We’re responsible for all of that. Yes, it is daunting, but it also isn’t because there’s four of us working closely together in our newly formed collective, to support each other and lean on each other where our strengths are and where our strengths aren’t. We each have have a set of skills, a certain set of skills. and so we’re going to pull this off because we are leaning on each other. And I’ve learned that from doing a few other pop up shows where we’ve had groups of artists where a lot of the artists come in and they’re just like, I’m going to show my work and not do anything to advertise, or I’m going to just swan in and swan out kind of thing and not do anything like taking that responsibility is important. So. So when you do choose yourself as an artist, you’re giving yourself validation. You’re saying to yourself, and this is important, that your art is worth the time, that the message that you have through your art is important and worth your effort, and you learning new skills to promote it. and you’re making people take a second look as well, because you’re going to show up stronger. you’re going to be more clear on your messaging and, take ownership in your show and the way you wouldn’t in a gallery show where you send the work in to be hung, you swan in for the opening and you hope for the best.
00:09:05 Speaker 2: And everything is connected, I think. And that’s why, uh, like when you work with Paula, she helps you and supports you use social media as a marketing tool. And when I’ve been in group shows before, as Paula said, I’ve had people go, oh, I’m no good at social media and you’re meant to go, oh, that’s okay. I’ll do all the social media. It’s like, no, we need everybody who has built up that audience. We’re planning to do these shows. all over the world, all over the country. And hopefully as well, we’ve built up followings that it doesn’t matter. There will be people coming wherever we go, because they will know our art and want to see it and have the opportunity to see it. I’ve had people in Canada and America say, oh, you know, you need to come over here. We want to see your work. And it’s like, ah, I don’t I don’t know how, but this is a way working in a collective with like minded artists who are prepared to all pitch in and work in the way that to make this show successful. This is the best opportunity in our lives that we have to make this work. And let’s share that with other artists.
00:10:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it does come with down to the fact that we just stopped and went, we’re not going on the merry go round. We are not doing. The jury chose the gallery shows, the pay to play galleries or anything like that anymore. and we’re going to take control over how our art is presented, where it’s presented, what people say about it. we’re taking full control over that, and it does require a bit more, but I think it will actually net a hell of a lot more for us, not just in income, which I mean, obviously great because we live in a capitalist society, but in terms of of making people become aware of us. It’s very difficult for artists to step up and go. Actually, we’re controlling the narrative. Here we are. We’re taking charge. We’re not we’re not following the institutions that have been set up. It’s the same thing with book publishing. When I tell people I’ve written so many books over the years and blah blah, blah blah, like, this is amazing. How did you get published? Well, I just went. I’m not interested in being judged by colonial style publishing houses that are looking for things to, um, repeat what has already sold well, I couldn’t care less. Like it’s all well and good, but I want my work to be out as I see fit, and so I’m just going to publish it myself. I’m going to have an editor because obviously you have to, but I am going to, to do what I need to do to get books out on my schedule. I’m not waiting two years for something like that. It’s the same thing with the art, right? Choosing yourself and going around the institutions because we think they’re valuable and valid, because we’re told that and everything around us is made up.
00:12:05 Speaker 2: And what was the title of my first solo exhibition? Paula?
00:12:10 Speaker 1: Oh no, I can’t remember.
00:12:13 Speaker 3: Ha! I know it was. It was called.
00:12:17 Speaker 2: Reclaim the Narrative, and I think that’s what we’re doing. It was reclaiming the narrative. It was about women in history, obviously at the time and their stories. But we are reclaiming the narrative of the art world, you know, to do things differently and to make it, easier for women in particular. But anybody it’s not just about women to try things out differently. Um, we’ve talked about, you know, some of the things we’re going to do, we want it to be, a sensory experience. We want it to have a social media corner. We are going to create pieces that are there for the social media corner. there’s just going to be so much projections, everything to make it in this world where people still think and there are people controlling it, that art is elitist and people don’t want to let people in, as Paula said, who are doing things differently. And that has been the history of since time began. Human nature. People have found that people who want to do things differently are a threat, and they find it threatening because it means that they are not totally in power. So it it is it is a very political movement, but actually we want to get it out there to make it more accessible. It’s very it’s quite a sort of dichotomy in that sort of way that we’re trying to make it more accessible, but we’re also trying to shake things up.
00:13:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We’re not we’re not destroying what’s already there, but we’re letting artists know through our actions that you have other opportunities. You don’t have to go and beg a gallery who’s overstretched anyway and is looking for a way to sell the same shit to their same customers over and over again, that you can actually make a difference and choose yourself so that nine hundred dollars or one thousand dollars I spent on frames for that one show that I didn’t sell anything for, is actually more money than we’re spending on the show itself that we’re doing in May, which is just wild to think about ten years later. Um, I’m spending less money to be in a show, so. And a show that I run as part of a collective that we have the ability to bring people in. when we think about how we define art to the art world, has outsider art, insider art, all of that, which I also want to throw out the door as we talked about.
00:14:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, outsider art, that I was horrified that somebody categorized me as, you know. Absolutely. I was like, what? Sorry, sorry. What are you talking about? I don’t understand. This is. You know, it makes it sound like you’re on the outside, banging on the doors, and nobody’s letting you in. You know that your art is not accessible to for people, or people won’t understand. It won’t understand the language of your art. And it’s like, whoa, no. Exactly. But that keeps the elitism going. I was just thinking as well, and we’ve talked about this before, Paula, how there seems to be this big gap between, oh, I’m selling my art on a market stall, even though it’s called an art fair. Their market stalls, as we talked about people saying, oh, can you host an artist in your porch or on your drive? How is that raising the profile of art? It’s not. But there’s that side of it, um, where a lot of people get stuck because they think that’s the only way. And then high end galleries that nobody can get in because they’re banging on the doors and nobody’s letting them in because they’re like, we’re only take work from white male people who paint in this way. This is the language of our gallery. And it’s like in between there’s very little. It’s like one or the other. And this is like a middle way. This is the gap in the market for people who want to buy art, appreciate art, want to sell art, to do things differently. And as we said, we haven’t got the formula, but we are learning as we go. And it might not be right for everybody but have a go. Think outside the box because we need more thinking out there. We are creatives, so let’s be creative about the industry.
00:16:52 Speaker 1: When you decide to be creative. I think it’s important to be creative at all the ways, not just in. This is how I make my art. This is how I show up. Uh, fee and I and even our collective have been talking about how we dress, how we appear in photos, how we, show up in video and talk about our art and talk about ourselves, how we how we position ourselves as being different and accepting that. So if you go all that way and then stop and go, well, I must be in a traditional gallery. You’ve missed the point, right? You got to go all the way. And I think that’s the message of this particular episode. As we start to wrap it up, is just thinking about about how you can take the assumptions that you’ve had all your life, probably because we’ve been told even in schools by teachers, artists don’t make money, and good artists get in galleries, and bad artists sell commercial art and do illustration, like good and bad as as if that’s a moral judgment. good artists sell for, hundreds of thousands of pounds or dollars and bad artists sell in the church fair. Like, honestly, I want anybody who’s listening to this to stop and think and question everything you think you know about the art industry, about how you can sell art, where you can sell art, how you can engage with the public? Should art be, uh, predominantly, academic and leave people out of the discussions and make them feel like idiots because they don’t speak the right words? Or can art be inviting? Can it be the great leveler? I think it’s really important to me is is not making my art affordable financially because that that doesn’t work for artists, especially skilled artists. But it’s making art affordable intellectually, allowing people to come in, feel like they can connect with art even if they don’t know the special words that we have in the art world, even if they don’t know what dichotomy is or, design or whatever, they don’t understand stuff. They can still go in and appreciate it. If we make people feel like it’s intellectually affordable to come in and experience art and then take that experience home with them by buying pieces and putting it in their homes or their businesses or whatever. We have then shifted the art world around so that there is that, difference of approach to it, because the first thing most people do is they look at it and go, well, how much is it? How much is it? No, that, that that doesn’t matter. It matters if you have a budget, but it doesn’t matter really. It’s how can I connect with this and feel like I’m not a, um, again? I’m going to the swear jar. I’m not a fucking idiot because I don’t understand the subtext in it.
00:19:27 Speaker 3: No, don’t have.
00:19:28 Speaker 2: A swear jar, Paula.
00:19:30 Speaker 1: We we probably it’s a good thing, but, uh. Yeah, you want to. You want to make sure your audience feels that connection and feels free to have an imperfect connection because their connection with your art is their own personal journey. and when we choose differently, and we show up differently by having our shows that we choose ourselves, that we we do these pop ups, that we take charge of things, we allow more people to come in and have that experience.
00:19:55 Speaker 2: going back to what we another thing, that we all often talk about is about art being about communication and telling stories. And, we’re challenging viewpoints. We should be challenging viewpoints, through our artwork. This is why we spend so much time on our why? What are you trying to say? And about the communication. So by the same token, if we’re challenging the way that people think or identify or whatever with art through our artwork, we have to challenge the way that people can see it as well and and buy it and own it. And in twenty twenty six, it’s not doesn’t have to be the same way as it was in Victorian Britain. I mean, as I say, Royal Academy show, that’s all I’m saying. You know, people are still thronging to have their art placed high up on a wall where nobody can see it, and they can’t tell the story because of the prestige of the Royal Academy show. You look at how the Royal Academy kept women out, kept working class people out, people of different Personalities. Why are we still embracing that way? I don’t understand. You know, somebody that Paula and I both know, submitted an artwork for the Royal Academy. Didn’t get it in. And so she is a textile artist. And so she sewed it to her jacket and went to the show, and I just thought it was genius. She was like, look, my artwork is at the Royal Academy. It is at the Royal Academy summer show. She was challenging. I mean, she was making her protest. I would say, we don’t need that is not those people who select the art, are not the people who know. it’s like saying, well done. You fitted into the mold. You can be in our show.
00:21:57 Speaker 3: No. Yeah.
00:21:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I that’s such a such a good point. I was just thinking as you were talking, we have shows here, running galleries called like square foot shows where people submit one square foot of 2D art, so it’s like twelve inches square of of panels or whatever, paintings, collages and whatever. And then when you go to the show, it’s just walls covered in these panels. How do you then engage with an individual piece? You can’t. There’s a one hundred or five hundred pieces in a room, and it just immediately loses that connection, that value. People go there and be like, oh, I was at the square foot show. How do you find a piece you like when when it’s so overwhelming?
00:22:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:42 Speaker 2: And it’s the same. I mean, this is going back years and years and years when I was taught by the National Gallery educators there, you know, and when you bring children to the gallery, only show them focus on two or three paintings in an hour. That’s it. Done. And I was like, that makes so much sense because, people will go to the National Gallery, which is huge. You know, anyone who’s been to any of these massive and wander around completely overwhelmed, but just go, oh yeah, I went to the gallery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they’ve not learned anything or connected with the artwork because that’s how they think people should look at. Art is just like, almost like a conveyor belt. Except they’re the ones that are moving the viewer where. And it’s the same at art shows. It’s a conveyor belt. So, that’s why they come back with just a card, you know, because they’re completely overwhelmed.
00:23:41 Speaker 1: Mhm. And we know from studies that after thirty choices people tend to stop. They’re afraid of making the wrong choice. They make no choice at all when it comes to online shopping. it’s why, Amazon will give you if you do a search, they’ll give you a very limited amount of choices when it comes to what you’re looking for. They’ll all look fairly similar, so you don’t get that overwhelmed. You’re more likely to buy. A lot of places do that, but it’s important in shows to to understand how your work is positioned and how overwhelmed or not overwhelmed people are. I went to, um, an a witchy sort of occult show back in the summer, near London where I live, and, uh, the wrong London. Um, and.
00:24:21 Speaker 3: There is.
00:24:22 Speaker 2: No wrong London.
00:24:23 Speaker 1: I know, I know, I’m kidding, but it was such a great show. I went in there with the intent of buying something, but by the time I got to the end of it, I was so overwhelmed with all the choices, I didn’t buy a damn thing. I talked to quite a few interesting people, but I just I was like, maybe the next table has something more exciting, maybe the next table. And by the time I was done, I was like, I’m too tired to even think about buying something. And I went home. It was a great event, but it was overwhelming. And this is what happens when you put your art in shows and events where people are historically overwhelmed. So, studio crawls or open studios, depending on what they call it. Those are the kinds of things that can be also overwhelming. and I’ve never participated in them on purpose because I’ve gone to them and gone, okay, maybe the next place will have some. Maybe the next place I better save my money and check the next place. And then you get done and you’re like, I don’t remember what I liked. I don’t remember anything. It’s it’s a lot.
00:25:15 Speaker 2: Because the objective of going as a, you know, participant or a viewer or whatever you want to call it is almost like a tick list. It’s like people who travel the world collecting their passport stamps. it’s about how many countries can I go to? How many artists can I see? That is not it doesn’t make any sense in the art world. And we also know as creatives that usually the people, who do come and buy and do sell at these places, it’s somebody who’s either collected before and they’ve come specifically to see that artist which is different. They’re not. It’s not somewhere where you go. Oh, like a supermarket. Oh. Oh, yes, I fancy that. And they say that’s why they end up looking, picking up a print for thirty pounds or thirty dollars or whatever. Because that’s all they can manage, because they’re seeing it like a supermarket. They’re seeing it like a theme park. How many rides can I have?
00:26:18 Speaker 1: Mhm. I think one of the, the interesting things about our collective is that we each do very different things, and there’s only the four of us. So when you walk into our space, it will be less overwhelming because there’s very distinct artist styles and methods. We have an amazing collage artist who does abstract, collage or maybe surreal collage would be a better word for it. We have to ask her how she defines herself. And then there’s you with your so-called outsider art, which is a load of crap because it’s not. It’s beautiful storytelling art in your own unique style. And I’ve looked at thousands and thousands and thousands of artists portfolios over the years. I think at this point I’m into the tens of thousands, if not more. and I’ve never seen anybody. Yeah, I’ve never seen anybody who does work like yours. And then we have another artist who does these beautiful animal portraits that are so colorful and so unique and so soul catching. And then we have me doing human portraits, and mine are in neons and bright colors, and you can see the drawing underneath because I do my drawings and Sharpie. So it comes through like we have very different styles, but we come together in a way that we hope won’t be overwhelming, but will be engaging. We have lots of things we’re going to be doing in the show, which we’ll cover in later episodes. but we have plans to help make, the show intellectually affordable. My new favorite term that I just coined today, intellectually affordable and and enjoyable for our audiences.
00:27:50 Speaker 2: And it will be free to come. Yeah, absolutely. Because people are getting a bit confused about.
00:27:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, it will be free because the whole point is to come in and engage, right. And and make it possible. We’ve all been in places at various times of our lives where even a pound would have made or broken us to for admission. Right? We’re not going to be charging admission, but we are asking people to come in and give it a fair shot, but making the experience worth their time and effort. But I think when we swing back around to choosing yourself and deciding that going around the so-called accepted institutions in the art world is actually the smartest move an artist can make this year. That understanding that you can book in, galleries, there’s a lot of galleries that allow you to hire the space for a week or a weekend or two weeks. There’s a lot of spaces that aren’t galleries that would lend themselves to this kind of show as well. We know an artist who got a storefront for a week. because that’s the store was empty. And so the landlord, until they could fill it with a store, were were leasing out, pop up shows until, the time that they got a long term tenant. So that was really great. you did the show, and I think it was reclaiming the narrative, wasn’t it, in Wales that.
00:29:06 Speaker 2: Uh, no, that showed the reclaiming the narrative was my, in fact, it wasn’t my first solo show. That was the one I did in Newark.
00:29:14 Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So what was the one in Wales that you did? That was a oh, there we go. It’s not just me, okay? It was something about women. but anyway, it it was in a space that wasn’t typically considered to be a gallery. And yet you got a lot of foot traffic and quite a few sales, because the people who owned the space made sure that people knew about it. Working with you, with the marketing and everything else. And it was a really successful show. You didn’t wait for somebody to come to you and say, fi, can you come here?
00:29:43 Speaker 2: And we thought about making again, which is what we’re thinking about and making it an enjoyable experience. There was an outside space, so there was, people sitting. It happened to be a lovely sunny weekend. People were sitting in this outside space having a glass of wine, having a chat, popping back in. In a way that probably wasn’t planned. It just evolved. But, you know, I learned so much from that that it was. And the people who came felt like they’d come to a whole experience. It wasn’t like, oh, we’ll pop into this exhibition and then we’ll go for coffee down the road, you know? It was everything was there in one place. Yeah. And I think going back to what we were said at the beginning about choosing yourself, it’s choosing when you it’s like when you’re creating your art, you choose what you want to say. And when you are Exhibiting your art. That rule should be the same. Choose the best way to show and share your creativity and your artwork.
00:30:48 Speaker 1: We have more control than we think we have. I think is the bottom line. We have more abilities to make choices that help ourselves, and we can define our own path. And the beauty about being an artist is that we are already inherently creative, and we march to our own drums. Anyway, let’s just go all the way, right? Let’s go all the way. So as we wrap this up, this is the thought that we do want to leave you with is that you can make choices and you can do differently, and you can skip all the supposed steps that you have to have to be an artist. Like it’s all just crap. So anything you want to say before we we wrap this up.
00:31:30 Speaker 4: It’s all crap.
00:31:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, I’d say it’s about empowerment. We need to take, as I say, reclaiming the narrative. Let’s, claim the narrative for our art business in the same way as we want to share our stories. It is all connected. And if we can empower you guys out there to reclaim your art stories, then our job here is done.
00:31:59 Speaker 1: Exactly. So thank you very much for listening to us in our latest episode of Art crush. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon, and more, and also on YouTube. and, check out our websites for UK, for work and for my own work. grab the spelling of those in our, bio and we will catch you in the next episode.
